ep. 510 - Ancient Maps and Lost Civilizations

You are listening to the
Primitive Intelligence podcast

episode of 5-10 Ancient
Civilizations in Ancient Maps.

That's a working title.
I just came up with that off the

top of my head because that's
what we're going to talk about.

I had had to throw out that
whole bunch of.

We'll talk about that in the
beginning of the episode.

But the all the research that I
was doing that I had to throw

away, which sucked.
And yeah, and you're still

working on your, your story,
your, your segment and which I'm

excited to hear about.
But we're going to, we're going

to let that go one more week,
let you get that all together

and then we're going to jump
into this one that is absolutely

thrown together.
I've been reading and doing

research as we were getting the
stream ready because I was

completely unprepared because of
having threw out all my research

for two weeks.
But it works out.

So without any further ado,
episode 510 of the Perm of

Intelligence podcast starts.
That's it.

There we go.
So we were talking earlier.

I'm a little bit disheartened
right now because I spent, what,

two or three weeks?
Not straight, but two or three

weeks of research.
Today I just threw right in the

garbage.
That's unfortunate, isn't it?

It sucks because that's a lot of
time and it it was shaping up to

be really interesting and
without getting too much into

it, because I I really don't
want to give.

I don't I don't want to give any
additional power to whatever the

hell was going on with this.
But I was approached by someone

for an interview, and as I tend
to do, I I go through my

research and I researched the
information I was given.

I start to research the person
and I start to research parts of

the story and it led me down a
very, very dark path.

No, the the story is kind of
well, I guess the story itself

isn't all that light hearted,
but it's kind of wrapped in a

light hearted shell.
But the source of the

information is a very dark,
disturbingly dark source.

And I I I couldn't very well do
the interview with this person

and not bring this up.
And I don't want to attack

anybody.
I mean, we got to think about

what we want the podcast to be.
I want it to be entertainment.

I don't want it to be you know
we're we're going to cover dark

topics at some point that are
maybe not that dark but you know

I but.
You have to go with your gut.

If it's not feeling right and it
just feels too happy, then yeah,

you know, I mean you know the
part of the story behind what I

was looking into.
And I mean we've we've talked

about other things where it's
like initiation people are being

initiated into something and
that's that's what this seems

like, like they're the the
sources information is trying to

initiate people into.
I don't know, maybe a cult of

some kind, but belief system
that in in ideals and actions

that just I don't want any part
with.

I don't I don't want anything to
do with it whatsoever.

So I just tossed it right in the
garbage.

It happens, but the older I get
the and I told you I used to

listen to a lot of different
music and then I found that at

night sometimes I'd be dreaming
and some of the music would come

through and.
And I've so it's just weird.

The older I get the more I
realize that what you what you

consume it, it, it's there.
It's a part.

It starts to become a part of
you and you you really need to

be aware, everyone does of of
what's in your surroundings,

what you're engaging with.
You know what?

You're what you're consuming,
whether it's entertainment or

whatever it is, and because
it'll.

It it'll stick around for a
while, you know, even if it's

just rattling in your head or or
in your dreams.

Yeah.
And I I don't want to, I don't

want to put that in anyone's
head, you know, it's it it was

it was dark.
I I went back and forth in this

for about, I don't know, three
days on what I wanted to do.

And I was kind of in my head
going through how to approach,

even if I if I if we had gone
through with it, you know, I

would have had to be up front
before we even started anything

with this person and said, look,
this is this is where my

research led me.
And if you're not comfortable

talking about this, then we just
won't.

But the more I listen to other
things that this person has

spoken on other podcasts and
other things like that, that

it's just kind of glossed over.
And I it's just like I couldn't

do that.
And I don't.

Like said, I don't want to be
antagonistic.

I don't want to has someone on
that feels like to being

attacked.
So yeah, I just figured the best

thing was that I kind of ran it
by you earlier like hey look

this is what I'm thinking of
doing.

But you you just basically
reinforced what I was already

thinking.
It didn't feel right and

shouldn't do it.
Lot of lot of lot in life has to

do with how you feel, what your
guts telling you.

Got to go with it.
Got to trust yourself.

Yes.
So instead of that, I I was

hoping to do your thing this
week, but you're you're still

getting everything together and
I'd rather you have have it

coherent and we'll just use that
for what we were going to not

coherent, but cohesive.
You're rarely coherent, but

yeah, I'd rather you have that
together.

We'll do that in in place of
what I was going to do and this

week we'll do something lighter
like the demise of

civilizations.
How much fun is that?

Are we talking the apocalypse or
just, you know, the end of

civilization?
Well, not not our civilization,

but civilizations.
OK, so last week I was out

hiking with with Dragon and Matt
and Shadow and Shadow and I were

talking about just about the
podcast, about some of the

things that we talked about and
different points of view and

things like things like that.
And he he turns around good.

For those who don't know, those
are are Some of those are hiking

names.
One of those is a hiking name.

Yeah.
Well, and so, yeah, that's one

of those.
Yeah.

So yeah, nicknames, nicknames.
But Shadow turns around, he

goes.
What about these maps that these

ancient maps that show
Antarctica?

And I was gonna, I was planning
on doing something bigger with

this and I was like, well, you,
you bring me some maps and I

will get you on a podcast.
We'll talk about it.

But I started looking into it
and it wouldn't be worth doing a

whole thing about it.
But do you know what I'm talking

about?
The I I don't I I don't know

where you're going with it.
But I will say that what what

has intrigued me are how some of
the very, very old maps.

Show Antarctica and then some
more recent maps.

We didn't see it, so it's It
seems as though at least I and I

can't.
I don't know the maps I'm

talking to.
I'm referring about but did they

show Antarctica?
Well, and that's that's what you

don't know, because a lot of map
makers would rely on previous

maps.
So who's to say where things

actually evolved from?
I'm just say I've got, I've got

the information right here.
Oh, good.

Is it on the Internet?
It's a Well, it is actually.

So the the map I'm talking about
is the Piri Reis map.

OK, this was uncovered in 1929
in Istanbul at the top Capi

Palace.
I probably murdered that.

The map was drawn and signed by
Turkish cartographer Piri Reis

and is dated back to 15/13/80,
so pretty old now.

He was an Admiral in the Turkish
Navy.

He was an experienced sailor
cartographer and he claimed to

have used 20 different sources
to make this map, including

eight Tomic maps, 4 Portuguese
maps, an art, an Arctic Arabic

map, and a map from Christopher
Columbus.

Now the map was interesting in a
in a lot of ways because it

didn't use what it wasn't a map
like we would picture a map with

latitude and longitude.
Those those measurements, those

guidelines hadn't been invented
yet.

So it used these that you think
of old maps, you see like these

these like almost like a
rosebuds with lines coming off

them.
OK.

They depicted like wind
currents.

I think they're called like wind
lines or something like that.

And that's what this used.
It appears to show Antarctica on

it.
You know, it shows Africa.

And then South of Africa there's
landmass.

And then there's also the the
coast of South America as well.

But Antarctica hadn't been
discovered yet.

It wouldn't be discovered for
another 300 years after the

drawing of this map, and it
would have it appears to have

shown Antarctica without its
ice, which would be 6000 years

before that.
So when it was found, people

were like this clearly shows
Antarctica, like you can see it,

it shows Antarctica.
People started to research it

and see what they could find.
And there were other ancient

maps that showed a land mass at
the southern pole.

This is not.
It was nothing new.

But this clearly seemed to show
a coastline, islands, and

information.
So in 1929, a professor from the

University of New Hampshire,
Charles Hapgood, him and his

team is like a like his
students, they research this map

and he noticed this map uses
what's called mercatorial

projection.
And this is how we get like our

modern day maps where you take a
globe and you open it up to a

cylinder and you create your
your map and then you open it

up.
OK, right Now, mercatorial

projection didn't really come
about for another 50 years after

this map was made.
But they realized that there

were ancient Greek maps that
used a similar process.

It wasn't as accurate what it
had done been done by the

Greeks.
So it LED a it lended a lot of

credence to the fact that this
map was really was what they

what it said it was and when it
was from.

But now the article I read on
this really kind of jumped

because at some point this
professor somehow comes to

conclusion that the data sets
that the superior Reese used,

we're 4000 years old.
Like there's no, there's no line

to get to that that jump.
Just as like his team looked at

it 4000 year old data.
But what this would imply is

that the map sources and the
data points that he used were

created by a civilization that
predates everything that we know

and was able to do highly
detailed aerial mapping.

Because, like, this guy's like,
oh, the interiors are mapped

too.
Clearly this had to be done from

from the air.
They had to be able to map a

globe.
They had to have all this

technology.
Yeah.

So where where are those maps,
if anything, if that actually

existed And and you know, if
that happened, was there just

one guy?
There was one map laying around

and this guy and Perry Reeves
goes, hey, I could use this.

Like where?
Unless burned in a library at

Alexandria, but that's that's
possible.

But he Piri Reis never said he
used the stuff he used maps

from, which is is interesting
for that time period.

And I mean so his Muslim name is
here too.

I didn't even attempt to try to
pronounce it because I would

have not done it justice.
But a lot of Muslim

cartographers did not go outside
to find sources.

So this map is unique from that
standpoint that he was not

afraid to go and get ancient
Greek maps and you know, a map

from Columbus and all these
other sources to build this map.

He was he wanted to make the
most accurate map regardless of

where the data came from.
But there's there's some

interesting things about the map
that show that like like

sections, they translated the
text on it and some of the spots

are like this area is is, you
know, very cold and rugged.

The Portuguese infidels would
not go there, you know, like

things like that.
So like the he used that a

different time.
Yeah, he wasn't happy.

Different time, different
language, yeah.

But yeah, so this started to
lead to speculation that it was

a a super civilization that
predates everything and people

jump to Atlantis or ancient
aliens.

And this is from this professor.
This is New Hampshire professor

in a book he wrote stirs all
this up.

But there's a much more common
sense explanation for this map

and it did not take me long to
find information and go, oh,

here's what's going on.
Now I'm not, you know, a Rhodes

Scholar or anything like that,
but looking at the information

that other people have obviously
gone out and found and looking

at it and going, oh, this makes
more sense.

So there's some interesting
things about the map.

Like I said, there was sections
of the map that have been

translated and it said, you
know, it described the areas of

the map, but it also showed
images of monsters alongside

common animals.
So just like there's one where

it's like this, this dude with
no head, like where where his

neck would be.
It just goes straight across and

it looks like it's on fire, but
his torso is a face and he's

holding flowers, but there's a
monkey sitting next to him.

Like like what there's like.
References possibly.

Be I have no idea.
Yeah, but then there's there's

references to like 1 horned
mountain goats like unicorns,

long haired, white long haired
ape like creatures on this

continent.
Sasquatch.

I mean where?
So where do we think they might

have been talking about?
Do we have any?

I I think it was legend that the
local people were telling him

that was probably mistranslated
and then it was written down,

and then 500 years later
somebody else translated it in

English and it just doesn't make
sense.

It has no bearing on the map.
It's just it's just interesting

that it was on there.
The other interesting thing is

that the area showing the
Caribbean, especially Cuba, was

misaligned badly.
And there's there is evidence

that some of Christopher
Columbus's maps of the Caribbean

were aligned this way because
when he sailed to the Caribbean,

he thought he had made it all
the way back around to Japan.

He was not expecting to run into
North America.

He thought he had gone across
the ocean and he was coming back

to the east.
So he has like Cuba.

And when you look at a map of
Japan and Cuba, it's almost

identically orientated.
So it's like he thought he was

in Japan approaching Japan,
wrote, you know, drew out the

map and then Piri Reis copied
that map and put it in there.

But with that kind of omission
or a mistake put into the map,

what other mistakes could
possibly be made?

Because the way this map is laid
out, Antarctica would have to be

connected to South America by a
land bridge, because it's a a

consistent coastline down South
America and then around South of

Africa.
There's no ocean there, there's

no Strait of Magellan.
It's just all land.

Which to me would say he never
actually went to any of these

places.
He was just piercing maps

together.
And somebody at some point

sailed so far South and went,
oh, this must connect, or got

turned around and thought the
coastline connected, or just

kept going.
And since no one had gone down

there to see this continent at
the South Pole, just assumed it

must connect.
Ancient maps like in antiquity

used to show a landmass at the
South Pole.

It was called Terror Australis,
the southern land.

And this is where people see the
Puri Reese map.

And then they see these old maps
from Antiquity and they see this

landmass down there.
And they say Antarctica was

there, it had no ice.
This must be true.

The problem is terror.
Australis was only ever

hypothesized.
It was rumored, it was written

about and it was mapped without
ever being witnessed.

And the reason why they assumed
it was there was to

counterbalance the mass of the
land to the north.

That is the only reason they
thought there was land at the

South Pole.
They've never been there.

There was no no legend of it.
They just said, well, there's

this much land mass in the
northern hemisphere.

There must be this much in the
southern hemisphere.

So all these old maps from from
antiquity show completely

different sizes and shapes of
landmass down there.

Now ultimately they were right.
There is a continent on the

South Pole, but it's not this
Terror Australis, it's

Antarctica under, you know,
miles of ice.

So I think these maps for
antiquity, these other maps that

were, you know, this guy used,
showed this terror Australis.

He just connected the dots.
Then we've already got the

Caribbean that is completely
wrong because it's, you know,

orientated like like Japan would
be.

So how how could he?
Why would that not be the case

with the with the South Pole?
So it, I don't think it shows

the continent to the South, I
don't think shows Terror

Australis.
It just shows what people

thought should be there.
And maybe that's why that map

never really made it.
You know, it was hidden for

centuries because it was wrong.
You know, this isn't the

matricing on the wall.
To just to think about and and

again, if we're talking about
map makers, we're talking about,

you know, a profession unto
itself at the time.

But like as you said, it's
doubtful that they were actually

traveling.
They were making maps and they

must have been using resources.
So it makes you wonder what they

relied on and how they gathered
their information.

It's it's it.
To me it's it's kind of

fascinating because you're
talking about gathering or

creating a a a a network of
information and basing that on

what you're doing without
anything that we have today.

You're talking about word of
mouth.

You know, stories from sailors,
maps from people who were

adventuring.
That's all there was.

So you'd have to be gathering
this information and going to

possibly other libraries or
scholars and just trying to

piece it all together exactly.
But I mean regardless, they were

incredibly accurate maps, even
though they were wrong in some

instances.
The mapping of the time was

incredibly accurate.
I mean, the scale may have been

off and some of the orientations
of places may have been off.

But considering they didn't have
the technology that we have

today and they were relying on
basically navigating by the

stars and like they didn't even
have, I don't think they had

sextants really.
You know, I'm not sure what they

use.
They just traveled, you know,

they used the stars.
Imagine telling someone today,

here's a here's a stick a string
in a boat, go find me a

continent.
Oh, and it's a wooden boat that

relies on on wind, so here's a
couple.

Of gold pieces and an orange.
Have fun.

I got I'd like to I I I would I
would really like to a visual of

what it was like thousands of
years ago without any light

pollution in the middle of an
ocean on a clear sky like what

could you I mean just the amount
that you probably could have

seen it would have been would
have been fast and like it it

once your eyes adjust it could
have been adjust from what

there's there's no.
Light, like, not cell phones

though, But yeah, Imagine that
though, and what you're looking

at, you're not just navigating
by Points of Light.

People think like, oh, you're
going to navigate by a handful

of stars.
I mean, you've seen dark skies.

When we were in in Acadia, you
saw what that sky was like, and

that was nothing compared to
what they could see.

So it was like looking at a
forest.

It was probably much easier to
Navi to look up and be like, oh,

this is you could see the actual
strands of the Milky Way and

they could immediately look at
it and recognize how it was

orientated, where they were and
where they needed to go.

So yeah, I mean it's it's
incredible, but it it makes

sense like I couldn't do that.
I I know that.

I mean, I'm pretty good in the
outdoors, but I couldn't do

that.
And there was.

I'm going to, I'm going to run
my mouth for a little bit here

because I don't remember the
specifics, but I do recall

seeing a program about Native
Americans.

I I don't know if it was on the
American side or the Canadian

side, but how They had stories
and some of their their art I

believe was found in Hawaii, if
I recall correctly, and there

were stories about how they
would.

They launched their boats and
we're talking about, you know,

we're not talking about massive
vessels with sails.

They would launch their boats
and they would, they would

follow these birds that would
fly and then they would sleep on

the water.
So they would just continue also

just they would just follow
these birds and and wrap your

head around that where you're
just leaving one day and you're

like, OK, we're going to go
follow the birds and see where

they go.
You hear the geese take off and

you're like, at the boat.
Let's go.

Right.
Well let's go see what's out

there and and eventually people
find a way like it.

It's impossible for us to to
fathom doing something like

that.
Some people can't get to the

supermarket without GPS today
and and and these people were

just jumping in the water and
and again you have no concept of

weather.
Or what would happen?

You're just out.
You're once you leave, you're

out and you don't know for how
long.

It's not like like today if you
go, you know, you go, you're

going to, you know to a couple
states away.

Or even if you're getting on the
boat and you're going to another

country, you know how long it
takes.

You know where it is.
They didn't know where.

They didn't know if there was
anything.

They were just going.
So they may have just that.

Either they're either incredibly
courageous or life for them

sucked so bad they're like I'd
rather fall off the face of the

earth and stay here.
They just went like or a

combination of the two.
It's it's it's a it's a thing.

People were different.
It was just so different back

then, and to think that you were
still able to gather that

knowledge and pass it down.
And eventually it would become

part of a culture and then get
passed along.

It's it's fascinating like
today, like the things people

worry about and talk about and
most people don't.

Even if you think about the
concept of, like you said,

you're just going to get in the
car and go, that's a road.

That road's already there.
Oh, you might hit a dirt Rd. if

you're taking a short Rd.
Something.

It's still a road.
Somebody's already been there.

I've had the conversation with
people about being in the woods,

especially if it's old woods.
It's something that, you know,

that hasn't been logged a long
time.

There are trees everywhere.
So if you think about even those

those people who are trying to,
you know, literally blaze a

path, they're just walking over
down trees and through swamps.

And over mountains and they're
just walking.

They're just, they're out there
doing it.

And it's it's just, it's amazing
to me that we as a as, as a as a

as a global culture kind of kind
of got ourselves a little

pattern here where we know we
have a routine and we're not

worried about that because we
don't have to worry about it.

Well that's that's the nature of
humans though.

We we like our patterns.
We like our routines.

But with what you're talking
about there, I mean I I think

back to and I should probably do
an episode on this.

But the, you know, I spent a lot
of time researching my great

grandfather, my great, great
grandfather on my on my father's

side.
And he came over from Germany in

the 1850s as a, as a young
missionary, went straight to

Texas, got off the boat.
And they're just like go that

way, find Germans and preach to
him.

And there's like him and six
other ministers that just walked

through like 1800s Texas
wilderness until they found

congregations they didn't know.
And there's actually a quote

from him in one of those books
where he's like, I'm, I'm not an

adventurer.
I'm not a Walker.

This isn't for me, it was just
funny because I, I, I go

backpacking all the time.
But like, that wasn't for him.

He didn't want to do that, but
it was his job and he went and

did it and they they found their
way.

I mean, yeah, there was already
people there, but there wasn't

roads and cities like we have
now.

Like they built that stuff by
hand as they were going and.

They found a way.
And they found a way, yeah.

But this this map led me to an
interesting question, though.

What if it turned out that that
really was Antarctica?

Like who?
Who could have who could have

made that?
And, you know, and we've we've

spoken about the possibility
that modern humans aren't the

first evolution of advanced
humans.

You know, there's so much
history.

There's the Earth has been
around for so long that I I

refuse to just disbelieve the
idea that maybe not Homo sapien

but maybe another branch of of
humanity came before us and

we're advanced enough to get to
where we are, maybe even

further.
And then, you know, catastrophe

happened or they left or
something happened and it starts

over.
And then this just because

there's so many stories, so many
ancient stories about cycles

and, you know, like mass
extinctions and this, you know,

the 7th world or the, you know,
the 5th evolution or whatever.

Like, I'm not not quoting any of
those, but, you know, there's

always these stories where there
were just another iteration,

like it's it's happened before.
It's it's going to happen again.

And it led me to a book about
lost civilizations.

And it's actually called lost
Civilization.

The enigmatic disappearance of
ancient civilization.

That still mystify.
And this is by Conrad Bauer.

And I'm still about 90% of the
way through.

But I I pulled a few of the
civilizations that he talks

about and they're pretty
interesting because I know I

know you're going to talk about
an ancient civilization next

week and I figured this would be
a kind of a neat tie in.

I'm not going to touch on on
your guys.

But the first group he talks
about, and I don't think I've

ever heard anybody talk about
this when they're talking about

lost civilizations, the
Neanderthals.

Oh, interesting.
And it is interesting because I

never really like What do you
know about Neanderthals?

Well, I know the the known
evidence continues to to or or.

Let's just say the theories
continue to evolve and it sounds

as though they were possibly
smarter than us and and they.

It looks as though humans have
some Neanderthal DNA.

So they were close enough to us
that they were intermingling.

Yes, they they predate Homo
sapien by a lot.

Like they they survived the last
Ice Age like they were around.

They came out of the ice, you
know, literally.

They lived in the Ice Age,
mostly.

Most people consider them to be
just Cavemen, you know, living

in a cave, beating something
overhead with a stick and then

dragging it in and eating it.
But they were actually far more

advanced than this.
They not like they didn't build

houses, but they did.
They were able to fashion

clothes, they could fashion
tools, They had mastery of fire.

It doesn't appear as though they
used fire to cook, which is

interesting.
They just used it for heat and

they did exist alongside Homo
sapiens.

So we came like in the last
40,000 years of Neanderthal is

when Homo sapien appeared and
lived side by side in the same

regions, started to intermingle.
2 to 5% of modern human DNA is

Neanderthal.
And that's that's pretty that's

pretty common.
It's not like some people have

it and some people don't.
Pretty much everybody has 2 to

5% of Neanderthal DNA.
So where this guy kind of leads

is you.
Did they die out from something

because they were hunter
gatherers?

They they weren't farmers.
They weren't, you know, they

didn't appear to have the
forethought to store food.

They went out, They found what
they could find.

They haunted what they could
hunt.

They lived meal to meal, whereas
Homo sapiens were.

We would actually store food.
We would raise animals for your

future use.
Was it?

Did they just die off because
they didn't have enough food?

The climate was changing their
their source of food went away.

Or are we still here?
Is modern human?

Is Homo sapien just a
combination of the our initial

offshoot, our initial ancestors,
and Neanderthal, and they

combined and they basically bred
out of existence, but they're

still in existence because they
lived through us.

So did they actually ever go
anywhere?

That's an interesting theory.
I mean clearly it what clearly

they survived to a certain
extent because their DNA

survives.
So, so, so technically.

They did there.
It's interesting to me because

we everything we know it's it's
that's really all it is.

It's what we know so far.
So I I think it would be

completely plausible that if
different tribes got together

and intermingled and then it's
just the genetics that survived.

Or what we consider current
human Yeah, now there's I don't

have the the information in
front of me but over the past

month or so there's been two
discoveries that are fairly

interesting and the one is that
they found I can't remember that

it's Homo habilis.
Maybe it's a a a offshoot of one

of the early human ancestors
that were thought to have no use

of tools, basically just living
at the base of a tree or in a

branch.
They found that they've they

created structures.
They used wood to create

structures so they could land
and build.

When you get cold, what do you
do when you, you know, they look

at, oh, well, they the way they
determine the intelligence of

these animals or these creatures
or these early humans is by the

size of their brain cavity.
And they go, well, there's no

way that they could have been
smart enough to make a house.

But it turns out that they were.
And then there's another

offshoot, and I think earlier
than that, where again, they

were just, they were primitive.
They lived off a instinct.

They didn't know anything.
And then they find caves where

they lived.
And there's bones of this, and I

don't remember which branch of
humanity it was, but they find

their their bones in this cave
and on The Cave walls they find

art not drawn by modern humans.
And they're just like is.

That the painted cave in France,
May it might have been in

France, yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't surprise.

But it's in the yeah, This is
why this This is why I when you,

when you even myself, I catch
myself doing it.

But when you hear people talk.
It's almost as if we can

convince ourselves that it's
fact.

It's like, well, it's only what
we know.

Like, you know, we're we're
woolly mammoths haunted by man.

Well, yeah, we well, there's
evidence.

We think we have evidence, but
we don't really know other than,

oh, we saw some cut marks of the
bone, so they must have been

haunted.
But we don't know.

You don't.
We're just guessing.

It's all just scientific
guesses.

It's like we have no idea what
actually was there, and the only

thing we really know are the
massive megalithic structures,

because we could see them and we
could analyze them.

Yeah, but other than that.
But we don't understand.

Guesswork.
No, we don't understand.

We don't understand how they
were made.

We we don't understand why they
were made, if there was more to

them.
And like you said, there's

there's, it's what we know so
far.

But we only know a small amount
of what is available to us now

from the past and think about
how much is lost that will never

be all defined.
Yeah, you know it it's amazing.

And to think that, Oh yeah well
we're we're, it's we could be

the only ones that were smart
enough to figure this out.

Well, are we like we're seeing
other branches of human, we're

finding the evidence now that
they were they, they were

intelligent more, way more
intelligent than anybody ever

gave them credit for.
So what makes us so smart?

Well, and that's what's weird,
is it's all about again, where

for me, I'll get back on it,
where it's how people live and

it's the thought processes that
go into that life.

And I've gone through a few
rabbit holes lately.

On mostly on YouTube where
people seem to be confused about

even some of the buildings in
America and how they were able

to have been built like these
old buildings made out of stone

big structures, but we're
talking current day structures.

But people believe that we
couldn't do this because it's

not in our.
It's not in our concept of

reality where if you had to
build something, if you had to

get something done, eventually
you could figure it out it.

I mean, you know, all things
being realistic, I I also just

saw a video of a girl who
doesn't understand how you can

breathe in the car because the
doors are closed.

So I don't have a lot of faith
in what people see as a building

and can't figure out how to make
it.

Right, but it's.
It's and and our concept of time

is I think different from from
people in the past.

Like if you look at something
like Machu Picchu where these

massive or any any of these
other medical ethic structures

where there's massive
foundations that are carved and

stacked, we don't know how long
that was actually going on.

We don't even know how long.
It would take to do that we'd

know once ever, as far as I
know, really tried to replicate

it to see it.
I don't think so.

No, right.
So, so could we really do that

And and if you think about in,
in this, in this context like if

if you and I like if one of us
was going to be able to build a

house on our own, if we were in
the wilderness you wanted to

buy, you wanted to build a a
cabin or stone house, you could

do it to a certain extent.
And then 100 years from now,

someone could come across the
foundation.

They're going to have absolutely
no idea who we were.

And and it's it's something, you
know, a a whole civilization

could disappear for one reason
or another and we would really

have no idea.
But we we don't, right?

Yeah, yeah.
I mean there's.

That's kind of the point of this
book I was reading, right?

You don't know.
We really have no idea.

In in civilizations that we're
much closer to where we are now.

The the next one that he talked
about, well, I skipped a a few,

but next one I, I, I kind of
touched on was Easter Island.

Oh, that's a good one.
Yeah, so Easter Island, if you,

if you don't know, is a fairly
small island.

But it's in a very odd place.
It's like over 2200 miles from

the West Coast of South America,
and it's 1100 miles from its

closest island neighbor.
It is remote.

I did learn that the original
name for Easter Island is Tepito

Tejunas.
No, I'm sorry, Tepito Tejuna.

And it means navel of the world.
Oh, that's cool.

Nobody knows why it's was called
that.

They don't know.
They just go that it's the navel

of the world and but they don't
know why.

Legend says that the original
inhabitants are at least

original to what we know.
Inhabitants of the island came

there because their home island
sank and they're not talking

about the immediately says.
I'm not talking about Atlantis,

but there was another island
nearby.

Where like the rising waters or
yeah, priests destroyed it.

The the priest came in and was
like get your shit, we gotta go.

And they just left.
They just got what they could

and they left and they wound up
on Easter Island.

The good what I think, what I
think is interesting to me

because I'm basing this on my
knowledge and as a kid growing

up, there was a lot of weird TV
shows and things.

Yeah, and.
And you always heard about

Easter Island and you always saw
the heads and everything.

I knew all the way up until
basically right now, as far as

I'm concerned, everyone thought
they were they were just heads

to a certain extent.
And now they've been excavating

them and there's a whole body.
There's whole bodies, yeah,

everything.
That whole bodies.

Everything I knew about Easter
Island up until I watched

departures was from Bugs Bunny.
I don't remember Bucks Bunny and

you don't.
Remember, that's where the

Easter Bunny lived.
It was Easter Island.

It got its name Easter Island,
because it was discovered on on

Easter Sunday.
But I what what I think though,

like where I was going with
that, is if you think about, and

I guess here's a question for
everybody, should, should,

should, should contemplate this.
How fast does it take for an

inch of soil to accumulate with
no intervention, just by wind

and normal course of action,
right.

So if you're talking about a
stone, a massive stone

sculpture, and over half of it
gets buried in soil, but not

just the statue, everything
around it, there's soil

everywhere.
So how much time could possibly

have passed for that to happen?
Unless they were buried

intentionally up to the next.
Yeah, that's interesting.

I mean they they carved them and
walked them across the island

by.
Why would they not be capable of

burying them?
Well, no, I always just assume

that if you were going to do
that, then you would probably

want them to.
Like if if it was the point of

it was to walk, then you
wouldn't want to bury them

because that's they're supposed
to walk.

Well.
Well, so here's a as a as a

spiritual practice.
Well, there's there's not a

clear idea of what they actually
represent.

So what the the statues, the the
MO Moai was that it's pronounced

MO right Moai moai.
So they're carved from stone

that came from a volcanic crater
on the island, and the legend

says, like you said, that they
walked across the island.

Right.
Their their idea was they they

they walk across, they they
wander across island, they walk.

That's how they got to their
locations.

The interesting thing is, is
when people say that they're

they're put near the shore as
guardians.

The weird thing is is that
they're not facing the water.

They're not looking out for
danger coming in, they're facing

inward, towards the island,
maybe towards the volcano.

Some of them have hats, some of
them don't.

And yeah, they were they they
find them buried.

Now, it takes a long time for
soil to build up, but if you're

on an island, that soil could
have been deposited by a tidal

wave.
We're talking massive stones.

They wouldn't most likely have
gotten washed away.

Or there could have been a
volcano.

There could have been a lot of
things that buried them, or

they're buried intentionally,
but The Walking part they

figured out.
They did walk across the island,

and I saw this years ago.
I saw a documentary on it, and

this guy touches on it in the
book.

So as the American team goes to
Easter Island, because they're

like, we got to figure this out,
They started finding the buried

ones.
And they can't figure out why

they're buried, and they can't
figure out why they're not

facing the water.
They're facing away from it.

And they can't figure out how
they got from this quarry in

this volcano, like miles away.
To where they are, because

they're massive.
They're like 16 feet tall.

They're huge.
So they start looking at it and

they're thinking different ways.
And maybe they rolled them, but

the they may have.
But the island's been

deforested.
There's no, which is another

weird thing when you think about
how they're buried.

Deforestation creates soil
erosion, not soil accumulation.

So it's just another weird part
of this of this mystery.

But they found out that the way
that they're, the way they're

they're cut in their lefts when
they're standing and in place is

different than when they're cut
and laying down.

So they found that around the
head when they're laying down,

there's grooves and they're able
to put ropes around in through

those grooves and get four
people standing up, four or six

people standing around it.
And rock it and the way the

bottoms are curved, they
actually start to do this.

They rock back and forth and
they walk.

They were actually able this,
this team was of like six or

eight people was able to walk
one of these old statues an an

actual like moai.
They were like the island was

like go ahead, we want to see
how this is done.

They got permission.
They stood one up and they

walked it and they went.
This could easily be done for

miles.
Because the way they're

balanced, you got enough people,
you could actually keep it up,

right?
And even if it fell over, it's

not going to break.
You just got to stand it back

up.
So they actually walk them

across, but they still don't
know what.

Like if if those are your
ancestors that are protecting

you, why are they facing you?
Why they have their back to any

potential danger?
It's a good question.

Really bizarre.
And then?

Like only the ones they think,
the only the ones that have,

like the Redstone on the head,
Like the hat are the actual

ancestors that would be
protecting or would be

worshipped.
And the rest of them are

depicting something completely
different, but they they don't

know what that could possibly
be.

When Europeans finally found
Easter Island, there was

thousands of Islanders there.
There was quite a few.

They came back years later and
the numbers had dwindled and

they didn't know why, other than
there appeared to have been a

civil war between tribes of what
they were.

They were calling themselves the
Short Ears and the Long Ears.

And now, I mean, there's not
many people that live on the

Easter Island now.
There's more people there now

because more people are visiting
it, but even when.

See, there's evidence that even
when their society was much

bigger in starting to go into
decline, Instead of finding ways

to reforest the island, instead
of finding ways to make food or

better shelter, they focused on
those statues.

They just kept building them.
And by ignoring everything else,

their civilization started to
decline.

At least that's what what they
think.

But what?
What is so important about these

things that you would like your
civilization?

Well, I guess maybe they're the
ancient day equivalent of cell

phones because everything's
crumbling and you know, in our

society and everybody just wants
their freaking phone in their

hand.
And and I can understand if it

has a spiritual significance,
if, if there's a people that are

very, very spiritual or
religious, yeah, they would.

They would focus on this, but
there had to be some people at

one point who said, you know,
hey, there's no trees.

We better think about what's
going to happen when there's no

more trees but you all.
But it all comes out of the same

thing.
It's like who you are as a

person versus the collective.
So you you could be a free

thinker, you could think what
you want, you could even go try

to reforest it.
But if the majority needs that

lump, that timber to do whatever
they're whatever they're doing,

you're not going to win.
There, I don't think there's any

real evidence of the timber
being used.

It's not like there's
structures, well, well and and

and I guess if you're, I don't
know the size of the Easter

Island, right?
And I agree if if, if it's not.

I think at one point I saw a
theory that they were talking

about using the timber for
rollers and they were rolling

the statues.
Yeah, but now that appears

that's not the case.
But it's it's the same thing

here in America where, you know,
if we need timber for houses or

for fires, we're going to go out
and get it.

You know, there are people who
if you live on land, it's your

land.
You're going to try to maintain

that because you want it to
last.

But if you're not actually
living in that spot and you're

just going to go take it, people
have different, you know,

different thoughts on on the
need and and what's right.

It's not big.
And I yeah, I didn't think it

was very big.
It's 14 miles by 7 miles, 63

square miles.
It's not not a huge island but

it's the same thing if you if
you think about let's say

Scotland, if you and everyone
has ideas about well maybe not

everybody but if you if you try
to visualize it you can you can

picture the island you're not
picturing a forest and when as

far as as far as my knowledge
can take me it's it's my

understanding that eventually
when we started to be we were

starting to do animal husbandry
and and have animals you would

need the room to graze.
And animals that graze eat

everything.
And more trees went and more

trees went until eventually it
looks like it is today, and now

there are people who are trying
to reforest it.

Yeah, but they.
So if they deforested the

majority of the British Isles,
they didn't disappear, right?

That's true.
So what?

What was different with Easter
Island, I don't know.

I mean it's, I see that the
point you're making, but it's

it's happened in other instances
and it wasn't the end of their

civilization.
So I wonder what the tipping

point was.
The long the long ears versus

the short ears, Yeah.
Like, was it?

Did they just, were they so
fascinated with these making

these idols that they starved
themselves to death?

Yeah.
Did they just stop trying to

grow food?
And you're like all the trees

are gone.
We'll just make some food and

then, oh, we don't have any
food.

Well, let's keep making.
You know they'll save us.

It's keep making them make
enough of them.

They'll save us.
I don't know the the humans do

like to believe that someone's
going to come and save.

Them they, they really do.
And now this one's a little bit

closer to what I know you're
working on the the last two, but

the Anasazi and.
Do you know what the meaning of

the word Anastasia is?
I knew it at one time.

I can't remember it right now.
Ancient aliens?

No it isn't.
I swear to God, it translates to

ancient alien.
Yeah, Now they don't know that

that's that means ancient, like
space aliens.

But maybe they came from
somewhere else.

They're like the old ones that
came from another place.

It's more likely what it means
than like star people, but.

Yeah, so it means ancient
aliens.

And the weird thing about the
Anasazi, they were not a

civilization in decline.
From all accounts, all research,

they were in their prime.
They were extremely defensive or

offensive defensive.
I guess they would build their

homes on Cliff sides in the
cliffs.

Their whole there was like, it
was like modern day apartment

buildings.
Like a lot of the the units they

made looked almost the same as
everyone else's.

They had a lot of the same
tools, a lot of the same

baskets.
Like everything was very like

this is how we're going to do
it.

And then they would, they'd go
to their their, their home up in

the Cliff, and they'd pull their
rope or their ladder up, and

then they were safe and they
could go about their lives they

built. 30 foot wide roads and I
didn't have a chance.

I was going to look into this
before we got on the on the

podcast, but you can see them
from Google Earth apparently.

And you can see them come like
they come up out of canyons onto

messes and up on top of
mountains.

And they didn't have cars or
vehicles, but they they're

assuming they used them to get
materials down to to build.

I'm not sure what else they
would use them for.

Like why would you make 30 foot
wide roads if you like, why

would if you didn't have a
vehicle of any kind 30 foot

wide?
I I I don't see a reason.

Well, I mean, I can't fathom a
reason unless you had traffic,

you know, unless it was a trade
route of some.

That's a lot of trade.
It it is if, if, but if you

think about how I mean I I I
guess it could be an organic

transition from a small path to
30 foot wide Rd. like I guess it

could do that and it just
evolved and get bigger over

time.
It it may have been like a a, a

show, like what do you call
that?

Like a look, Look at me.
Look what it look what we can

do.
You know now they did have a lot

of stone to get rid of because
they carved their homes out of

cliffsides.
So yeah, maybe they start out

with smaller paths and then as
they trade it with other groups,

they were kind of in awe or
maybe even slightly intimidated

by these stone pads they made.
So they just start making

grander and grander.
And it was like, you know, you

don't want to mess with us.
Look what we can do.

I don't know.
I don't be.

Yeah, I I don't know.
The interesting thing, though,

is the petroglyphs.
The petroglyphs show.

Not just possible, but a a very
strong understanding of

astronomy, down to the point
where they don't know exactly

what it's supposed to be, but it
looks a lot like the Milky Way

Galaxy.
Like they may have had an

understanding of like it's like
a spiral petroglyph that looks

like the the Milky Way.
There's also drawings of figures

that don't look human.
And This is why people think

that the alien part is, you
know, and This is why ancient

alien hypothesizers like to
think that they were just beamed

up and taken away.
But they weren't the only

advanced civilization like that
to just disappear.

The Mayans, it happened too.
They just, we don't know what

happened to them.
Like they had all their

everything was there and you're
just, they were gone.

Now there are.
They didn't completely disappear

though, because the modern day
Pueblo Indians.

Are their descendants and they
actually carry over some of

their traditions and their
practices, so that's that's

pretty cool.
But what happened to the rest of

them?
And why like would you just hop

on the roads and walk away like
what happened?

Well and and something like a a
desert society and again I I'm

just guessing but something
where if you figure the the

world continues to get warmer or
if there's a you know change in

the climate maybe there's less
food maybe people just move on.

You know, they they they maybe
they're nomadic, They just

decide to go somewhere else.
Nomads don't make 30 foot wide

roads and build houses and
cliffs.

But also I can, I can throw
water on that idea because that

so that's in the Four Corners
region of the United States.

That's a high desert.
But there are ample ponderosa

Pines and juniper trees that are
in the area, and through records

they can find that when the
Anasazi were there, it was a

very it was very conducive to
growing the environment was it

was not desert like at all.
It wasn't arid, it was very wet

and they would have ample food.
But if you're if you're a nomad,

you're not going to.
Carve your house into the side

of that Cliff.
No, but what I mean is that

maybe then it was, and then it
just got a little bit harder and

a little bit harder, and then
people decided to leave.

So maybe they turned, Maybe they
just decided to Some of them,

yeah.
But where would they?

Go It's not like they like they
were in the Four Corners region

and then they moved over a
couple 100 miles.

They just disappear.
That's the interesting part.

That's that's what's interesting
is people they people that,

that, that that'll that'll touch
on my story for next time.

So people won't dig any deeper.
OK yeah.

And then the last one, and I was
just reading about this right

before.
So my I got a little information

on them and this does you may
touch on these.

So let me know if you do.
But the Olmecs?

No, not Olmecs.
OK, so the Olmecs, do you know

what the what their name means?
No, Olmec means the rubber

people.
That's cool.

Now in their region, rubber
trees were abundant and they

traded rubber.
So the the Olmecs were very

interesting.
They created, they created stone

buildings, so didn't carve them
out.

They built stone structures.
They created aqueducts.

They had plumbing.
They also carved these giant

stone heads.
I know the head.

I know the stone heads, they're
cool, yeah, that are round and

they appear to be wearing some
kind of like a helmet and the

author just says, is it rubber?
Did they actually make like

rubber?
Because imagine back then if you

could make a rubber like hat
that would battle people like

that would make you like like oh
what is what is that material

like?
It's not skin.

It's not hide.
It's not wood.

What what is that?
So they got these, these

helmets.
Now before I even read the next

line, immediately in my head I
went, well this is very much

like Easter Island.
They carved these giant heads

and they line them up in the in
like a guardian pose and then

they vanished.
They also are famous for the

sculpture that they have that's
called Ancient Astronaut in a

spaceship, I think it's called.
And it looks like I, I I know

the the sculpture, but it looks
like this guy who's sitting down

kind of leaning over and he's
got his hands on like knobs and

levers and they don't know what
it means.

That could be nothing.
It could just be and this guy

makes the same point.
This could just be some kind of

like ritual and he's sitting at
a table and it's the way they

they sculpted it.
It looks like he's in a cockpit,

but he's just at like a table,
like moving jewels around or

something.
We we don't know, but it's.

A cool sculpture.
It's a cool sculpture, yeah.

But the the key to that is it's
not an alien.

It's not like some weird
creature.

It's clearly one of them sitting
at this thing.

So it's like, did they have some
kind of, I mean, they had

aqueducts, they built buildings,
right?

Did they have some kind of
gravity vehicle, like something

they could, you know, they need
to get stuff from, you know, up

the hill.
Did they just get on this little

cart and roll it down the hill
and that's what they're

depicting?
And he's got like levers to

control the speed, like it could
be anything.

But it could be anything.
These they weren't.

We would never know.
People.

People think it's a it's a
spaceship.

Well, when you want to see a
spaceship, you're going to see a

spaceship.
Right.

But it also could be, if you
think again from a spiritual

standpoint, could be somebody
interacting with the heaven, the

heavens, it could be or their
ancestors or the spiritual

realm.
You know, you you could

interpret anything if you really
focus on, Oh yeah, it could be

some kind of instrument like
musical instrument throwing

though Think of like like steel
drums, like the they sit out in

front of you like that.
And if they had something that

was like, so we've got ringing
rocks in Pennsylvania.

What if he's like hitting like
rocks with sticks to ring?

It could be, it could literally
be anything.

But if you're looking for, it's
confirmation bias.

If you're looking for ancient
aliens, you're gonna see that

you're.
Gonna find it.

And if you say it's a guy in a
cockpit flying a spaceship and

you look at it, you go, holy
crap, that's a guy in his

cockpit flying a spaceship.
And then you could also think of

a millionaire.
The things it could be.

But if you want to see an alien,
you're gonna see an alien.

But they just there's another
group that just disappeared,

isn't it?
The Olmecs?

No, we've mentioned this before
that we we listen to Mysterious

Universe.
Weren't they just talking about

the Olmecs and that some of
their writing is actually

Chinese?
Was that the Olmecs?

They were.
Talking I I I can't recall but I

know it was it was mentioned
recently.

Yeah, it was one of those, those
ancient civilizations and they

were like, oh, like a, a guy
from there was like a Chinese

guy, like scientist and they
were going to a museum for an

exhibit and they let him in
without paying.

And he's like, oh, I didn't pay.
And they're like, no, you're

you're one of us.
You're you're of Olmec descent.

And he's like, no, I'm not.
And they're like, yeah, they

are.
And they let him in and then

he's looking at one of their
like a tapestry or something.

And he was able to read what was
on it and it was like 1000 year

old tapestry.
And you're like, how could you

read that?
He's like, oh, it's Chinese.

And you're like, and the Olmecs
are in South America, right?

Yeah.
They're like the forerunners to

like the Maya and the OK, the
Maya and the Inca, I believe.

OK.
So yeah, they they came before

them.
So they were, they're way, way

far back.
And there's also, there's a

chapter on the Maya in there,
too.

But I didn't even get to them.
And they're just that's just

another civilization that was
amazingly advanced.

And going back to the Easter
Island thing, how many temples

of the Maya are just completely
buried under soil?

So how long does that take?
Sorry.

And if you're just talking about
wind and normal soil build up

like some of those, some of
those buildings, they have to

actually dig them out.
And excavate.

Like, like literally excavate.
Yeah.

Because they think it's a
mountain.

And then they start to dig it.
Yeah.

And it's not like you're just
dusting off with like a little

feather dust because it's a
little dirty.

No, they're Berry.
Berry Now, one of the other

things he did talk about, and I
I didn't touch on it because it

was just like a he doesn't put a
lot of faith in it, but it was

some interesting information.
It was Atlantis.

Because there is a lot of, like
Atlantis isn't just something

that popped up in science
fiction.

We're going back to the times of
Plato, where he was talking

about this city of Atlantis that
was that sank in the ocean.

There's the What is that called?
Have you seen it's in the

Sahara?
Eye of the desert.

The Eye of the desert, yeah.
And that's really interesting.

And it because it's, it fits the
pattern.

It's like concentric rings that
come out.

It looks like a city.
There's like a Spire or what

would have been a Spire in the
center and people think that

maybe that was Atlantis, maybe,
maybe did get washed away and

then now, but it's pretty far
inland to have been underwater.

But that's an interesting
thought because and and this is

sinking sand.
You can find you can find some

theories out there, but one of
the theories is that it may it.

Maybe it wasn't.
It didn't sink.

Maybe it was a flood.
So when it was washed away and

sank below the waves, maybe it
was an actual flood that came

over.
It wasn't permanent.

It wasn't permanent.
And then there was also a theory

I heard about where it was
actually had to do with the

glaciers and how the weight of
ice and water can actually move

and lift and raise and lower
continents.

And there's there was one theory
about well maybe the, you know

maybe that had something to do
with it and it actually the you

know the continent has been
rising you know or you know, I I

don't I don't have the the
theory down.

But there's a lot of people who
who are looking at that now

because they're finding like
salt water, they're finding

evidence of.
Aquatic life.

I think they found whale bones
out there in the desert.

Oh wow.
They found like microscopic sea

remnants in like, the Rockies.
Well, yeah.

And I but I think when I say
like whale bones, I don't think

it's like fossilized.
I well, you know what I mean?

I think it's old, but it's not
ancient, like it like it's like

it recently it was underwater,
not not recent as in like last

week, but within the last few
thousand years.

Well, that's pretty interesting.
That that could be a whole

episode to itself.
That eye of the desert that

could be that's really that's
really cool.

The other area is on, well,
basically the other side of the

world over by the Bahamas is the
Bimini Road and that is you can

see that from Google Earth too
and that's a wide what appears

to be man made structure that
looks like a road and it goes

through like all right.
So it's not as long as I

thought.
It's not even a kilometre.

I thought it was way longer than
that.

This doesn't say how deep it is.
Of course, That's also

information from Wikipedia.
So yeah, this is 1/2 mile long.

This is right from the Bahamas
website.

I'll put a link to that in the
in the show notes.

Everybody wants to look at it.
But it's, I mean it's it's not

super deep that you can, I mean
there's sunlight on it and the

pictures, you know, coming
through the water, so it can't

be that deep.
But I I I thought maybe what I

read was initially wrong, but I
thought it they saw more

evidence of it that went further
than just like a half mile or

so.
I thought it was like 100 miles.

They they were able to trace it.
Be interesting.

If it was, yeah.
The only thing I heard was that

it's possible that it could have
been above water in the last Ice

Age.
Now that information just says

it's a rock formation that
appears as though they've

abandoned the idea that it could
possibly have been made.

But maybe just 'cause they don't
know.

I'm not sure, but I mean,
there's a lot of interesting

stories like that about old
structures that we don't know

anything.
About, and that's only what we

know about.
What about all those?

What about all those people and
civilizations that have come and

gone and there's no evidence?
Oh, yeah, yeah.

I mean, continental drifts.
I mean, it's very easy for

something to have gotten either
wiped out by lava from an

earthquake or a volcano or.
I mean how many times do you see

where structures were dismantled
to make a bridge or something

like that, like, Oh well, we
don't use that building anymore.

We can use that stone to build
this bridge and they just take

it down and it's like it's
there's no significance to it

anymore.
So they just, they demolish it.

I mean we do it all the time.
We we demolish buildings left

and right.
It'd be interesting to see what

happens in, you know, in the far
future if any of our stuff, it

still exists and another life
form comes and they see like

Disney World or something like
what do you think of that?

Like roller coasters and they
trying to figure out what the

hell a roller coaster is.
If if something happened like,

you know, life without humans,
yeah, I think all that stuff

will be gone.
The the only thing that's gonna

really survive, you know?
I mean, the roads will last for

a certain amount of time.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's

like the ancient Roman.
Buildings that they find even

even in England, they'll they'll
be just digging in their

backyard and they'll find the
mosaic.

I mean the Roman roads will
last.

I mean our roads barely lasts
like six months here.

I mean, look at at at Prompton
State Park, old Route 70 goes

right through the park.
And I mean, we've been going

there for what, 10 years?
And that road is almost

completely gone now.
I know it's there, but there's

some spots where it was visible
10 years ago and it's gone now,

right?
So it doesn't stuff doesn't last

that long.
Our stuff to think we're gonna

last forever because we built a
building or whatever, it's gonna

be gone.
Yeah, it'll be gone, except for

where we went through a mountain
to put a road in.

It'll just be half a mountain
gone in the in the plastic

bottles.
They'll be around forever.

In the plastic bottles, yeah,
until something evolves to eat

all the plastic.
And then, well, they're actually

finding that bacteria is
evolving to eat plastic.

There you go.
There's a bacteria that is

eating plastic now, which could
be really bad because we got a

lot of stuff that's made out of
plastic, but it decides to start

eating stuff we're using and all
of a sudden your bumper falls

off your car.
What the hell happened?

Oh, my car's got plastic eating
bacteria.

Yeah, the the the bacteria.
Winds are coming through.

Everybody lock up your windows.
They'll be the next.

Then then we'll be back to stone
buildings and.

And glass.
And wood.

Yeah.
Well, did you hear that in New

York where they've they've
banned plastic straws and

they're making people use paper
straws?

Again, the coating they're
putting on the paper is toxic.

Yeah, it's toxic.
That's better.

Save the environment, but kill
the people.

It's just amazing that when when
we were young, one of the things

me and the kids in the
neighborhood did was run around

and collect bottles.
You know, because the people

would still litter and they
throw a bottle, or you'd find a

bottle and you'd turn it in for
the deposit and you'd get enough

money for like, candy and stuff.
But there wasn't that.

The The money you get for a
collective bottle is the same as

it was 30 years ago.
Well, it's because.

But they don't even make bottles
anymore that's the problem.

If if we just went back to glass
bottles and no plastic and then

just recycled the glass like
it's it's amazing in in a

lifetime in less than our
lifetime how much has changed

just because of the plastic.
But it's cheaper, they can make

plastic cheaper, and they can
charge more for it.

Well, yeah.
Yeah, that's about it.

That's about it, right.
Because you can, like, you've

seen where how they make those
plastic bottles, They start out

as like a look like a little
tube that you'd put like a a

sport drink in.
And then they just heat it up

and they blow air into it and
turns into like a balloon turns

into a bottle.
Then when it cools down, they

put, you know, whatever they
want in there.

And then yeah, who cares?
You throw it in the dump and

like you could probably recycle
that if you really want it to.

But a lot of places, even where
you recycle, the crap just winds

up in the dump anyway.
Like how many rules are there?

Did you get the the letter?
It had to be like two years ago

when the recycling, the local
recycling center was like,

you've got to do, you've got to
make sure everything's rinsed

and you got to separate this one
from that one.

And then you got to do this and
you can't put, you got to take

the little plastic tabs off the
top and you got or we're going

to start sending it back and
everybody's like, I don't know

any characters throwing it in
the garbage now because like

recycling is a great idea.
But when you make it so

complicated that nobody wants to
do it, it doesn't matter.

I think it's in Arizona.
What they do out there, they

call it, I think they call it
single stream.

So all your garbage goes like
your your normal garbage goes

into one can, anything that
could be recycled goes into

another.
Doesn't matter what it is,

glass, plastic, paper doesn't
matter.

It goes into another can.
All that stuff goes to the the

the state and federal prisons
out there and they let them

sort.
It gives them something to do,

makes sense.
And I was like, that's that's a

great idea instead of just
sitting there.

I mean, if if you're in prison
and you're trying to like get

out and you, you know, you've
learned your lesson, you serve

your time and you're trying to
do something better.

It might not be glamorous work,
but if you're showing you're

willing to put the work in,
that's a good way to do it.

You know, anybody can push a
card around giving out books.

That's why everybody wants to do
it.

But I think in prison, I don't
know.

I know nothing about prison.
I don't know.

I all I know for prison is what
I've seen in movies and so is

the guy wants to be the library
and pushing the books around on

the cart.
I want to be that now.

Not in prison, though.
No, no, That'd be a nice job.

That would be.
That'd be pretty sweet.

I wonder if the neighborhood
would allow that if I just start

pushing around the cart with
books and going up and going

want a book.
Well, if you get yourself a

shopping cart with a broken
wheel and a bunch of plastic

bags and talk to yourself,
you'll fit right in.

In my town.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have no idea how many people
I see just walking across town

with a shopping cart and then
they just leave it.

They never take it back.
And then they walk back.

And again, there's shopping
carts everywhere under and it's

not like they're living in them.
They just, they're too lazy.

Like get the little hand cart.
Like, what?

Is that so hard?
Or just carry your stuff.

Get a wagon.
They give them away, The

supermarkets give away free
wagons.

Oh yeah, with every purchase.
And now people are mad because a

lot of the supermarkets want to
start doing like Aldi's and have

the coin return and people are
like what am I paying 1/4 for a

cart?
But you get it back when you're

done is you stop leaving your
carts rolling around.

It's a.
Good idea.

People responsible for their
actions.

Yeah, because they they put
those little auto locks on them

now and if they have them over
by your supermarket, but down

here they got the, it's like an
electric fence around the

parking lot and there's a little
lever on the on the wheel and if

it goes past that little that
marker, that lever drops down.

It's like a boot.
It stops it from rolling.

So yeah, I saw it with.
I've seen that in Florida

because a lot of times it's
weird you think Florida's pretty

flat.
The parking lots all seem to be

angled out towards the road.
So you just see shopping carts

rolling towards traffic like
barely into the parking lot and

then it would get to that spot
and they just stop and need a

big.
They just kind of screeching

all.
And I was like, what?

How that happened?
Like, oh, there's like this

electric fence, But the Olmecs
didn't have that.

Well, maybe that's what
happened.

They all rolled away.
Everyone took their shopping

carts and they couldn't get
anywhere groceries.

That's not right.
Well, I hope you guys enjoyed

it.
That's all we got for this week.

It was interesting the end of
civilizations and the Piri Reese

map that that I was hoping it
was going to turn into something

bigger than it really did.
But it's interesting.

It's interesting.
It's a cool map.

Have you ever seen it?
Here and there, I haven't seen

it.
It's a cool looking map.

If you if you do get a chance
you could get a good copy of it.

Like a good picture of it.
Look at like the the coastlines

and like the the southern parts
of what would be like South

America and look for the little
monsters he has drawn in there.

It's really, it's crazy.
It's really neat though.

Next week, we're going to touch
on more ancient civilizations

with your story.
And I'm really excited to hear

this.
Yeah, I'm really excited to hear

this.
And then maybe I will start

working on a segment of my
great, great grandfather because

there's a, it's interesting.
That would be cool.

I mean, I've told you some of
the stuff that I found about

him.
There's books, books and books

and books that he pops up in.
And it's like, who is this guy?

Like, I know who he was.
I got his picture hanging on my

wall.
But yeah, like.

And I had.
To Yeah, that's a really

interesting story.
And I had to find that all out

myself because like, no way my
family talks, so nobody knew

anything about him.
All right, I got nothing for

nothing left.
So that's going to do it for

this episode, The Primitive
Intelligence Podcast.

See ya.
Bye.